The talk of Abbas retiring

• • 
    
• 

  
  

  Joe420k • 18 minutes ago

  
  

  I take the view I don't care if Abbas and his gang all have Harvard degrees, what is clear, there is a great chance, I would say 99%, that if these characters were given a state you can rest assured it will be another failed Arab state. The old guard is the same as the new guard. You look around in that region, proof positive. A bigger question is what will Israel do during this interfamily squabble - besides being amused? Just sit and watch? Why doesn't BiBi take unilateral moves to end the conflict by disengagement. They are weak, divided, elections might be around the corner or not - or Abbas could drop dead tomorrow at his age and it becomes a free for all - so why not disengage - spell out your borders, your position on Jerusalem, refugees and everything and disengage. Consolidate
  (which is pretty much done with the wall inside the Wests Bank and Gaza complete) and work to codify internationally ( as it has been done domestically) these new realities. In either case, the dysfunction in the Palestinian side will be generational to resolve. Hamas and Fatah schism is a microcosm of what is wrong with the Muslim Arab world.

  Give them their failed state. Get out, Israel knows what to do if attacked. So why is Bibi cowering from this historical moment? He is not afraid of Arab reaction as what can they do about it? He is worried about the international consequences. The Palestinians have managed to win on the political front and this is the irony of the whole mess. As Israel wins battles on ground, Palestinian defeat and weakness becomes a strength in the political sphere. Go ahead, once and for all 60 plus years later, tell the world of Israel's borders? Every religious and ethnic clan has announced their new borders, from ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Kurds, why not the Jews?

  
  

  
  

   

  •

  Edit

  •

  Reply

  •

  Share › 
  • 

    
    

    MidnightSunBlonde  Joe420k • 10 minutes ago

    
    

    Brilliant synopsis. (seriously)
    Just cut it down to about one third.
    First lesson in journalism, get your point across in the least amount of time.

    
    

    
    

     

    •

    Reply

    •

    Share › 
  • 

    
    

    Partyforever  Joe420k • 14 minutes ago

    
    

    The PLO is disintegrating, so why give them a state? Should you give them a rope to help themselves out of their situation or to hang themselves?

    
    

    
    

     

    •

    Reply

    •

    Share › 
    • • −

      

      
      

      Joe420k  Partyforever • 7 minutes ago

      
      

      You are not giving them anything. You are consolidating the gains made since 67. Mission accomplished. Unless you are into oppressing people for kicks, then not sure I understand your point. If they hang themselves - or end up butchering each other with knives - announce the borders and defend it. End of story.

Dystopia in today's Middle East

What cannot be argued is how the Middle East has entered into a dystopian realm. To those on the Israeli right who believe the solution involves transferring the Palestinians to Jordan need to re-examine that position. The idea Israel will add more to it's lifespan by transferring the hostile natives across the Jordan River to where there can be no illusion what will transpire - as you look at the forces at play with ISIS expanding, Syria turned to rubble, Iraq in a endless death spiral, Yemen's civil war, Egypt's war with the Brotherhood, ISIS in Libya and in Northern Africa expanding. Let us not forget the 100 year conflict with the Palestinians. The region has been smoldering into oblivion for decades. It  has been unfolding for decades. There is a force that is more powerful than Israel, hard to believe, but history takes a back seat to no one. To move the Palestinians to Jordan will only create ISIS next door to Israel. Therefore, Israel needs to decide? An inept Hamas next door or what appears to be any army conquering lands all across the Middle East, ISIS? Israeli's are safe now because ISIS has yet to target Israel. Once Israel transfers by force 6 million Muslims across the river, not sure how that move adds to Israel's security. Israeli's could wake up one day to find all of the Arab world is controlled by ISIS. That is highly likely since ALL Arab regimes lack legitimacy and as corrupt as the infinite universe. I didn't get to Iran's nuclear prowess and possible threat to Israel.

Removing Assad of Syria

I don't understand how people think removing Assad will solve anything. Did removing Saddam solve anything? Did removing Gaddafi solve anything? Removing Assad will only insure an ISIS takeover of all of Syria. So what is the solution to Syria? It was a fragile state to begin with just like Iraq when we invaded it. Now that it's broken in so many pieces there is noway it can be put back together. The Alawites are undoubtedly threatened by a genocidal ISIS. The Assad regime and it's supporters will have no choice but to fight to the bitter end. ISIS has already slaughtered or ethnically cleansed all those who are not Sunni Muslims. Syria in the best case scenario will be carved up with an Alawite enclave, Kurdish enclave, Druze and of course ISIS, Al Qaeda, and a few other Sunni groups. There is no Syria anymore. The refugee problem will only get worse as ISIS continues to expand - possibly into Lebanon and Jordan. This is Armageddon for all practical purposes. Try telling the Iraqi's or Syrians, or Libyans or Yemeni's or Christian Arabs or Yazidi's otherwise? Will the walls being built by Israel be sufficient defense against this historical tsunami? The walls of Jericho fell, according to the Torah. Kinda ironic to see Israel today as the modern day Jericho all walled up. Let us hope God is not on ISIS side. We all know what can happen to walls if God gets in the act

Study: Christian population in the Mideast is dropping rapidly

Studies show the remaining Christians in most - but not all - of the Middle East are in dire straits.

By Haaretz Jul. 28, 2015 |

The dire fate of the Christian communities in the Middle East has become headline news lately. The murderous civil war in Syria; the rise of the Islamic State; the turmoil in countries such as Iraq, Libya, and in North Africa; as well as the anti-Christian Islamic regimes in places such as Iran, where the Christian population has almost vanished - as in Turkey; have led to a mass exodus of Christians in the best case, and enslavement and genocide in the worst.

Christians now face the worst religious persecution in over a thousand years in the Middle East, reports Christianity Today, based on a study conducted by the Pew Research Center.

Last week the New York Times Magazine ran a major article detailing the plight of Christians in the Middle East, saying about a third of the 600,000 Syrian Christians have already fled, and only about a third of Iraq's 1.5 million Christians in 2003 remain today. The Times asks whether this is the end for the Christian community in the Middle East, and whether it has any future in the region of its birth.

 "Christianity is under an existential threat," Anna Eshoo, a Democrat member of the US House of Representatives from California, and an advocate of Mideast Christians, told the Times.

A recent report from the British Guardian newspaper pointed out that the persecution of Christians started not with ISIS, but 10 years ago after the US- and British-led invasion of Iraq. Prior to the invasion, "under Saddam Hussein's rule, Christians in fact enjoyed what they now recall as a golden age. They were free to worship and played a full role in society. However, the removal of the dictator let loose an ugly Shia-Sunni power struggle," The Guardian wrote.

Israel, and at least for now Lebanon, are the only countries left in the Middle East where Christians have freedom to practice their religion and are safe from persecution. But the Lebanese Christian population has shrunken from 78 percent to only 34 percent over the last century.

Interestingly enough, the Pew report from April says the strict Islamic nations of the Gulf states, such as Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, are seeing an influx of Christians. But these are almost totally migrant workers from Asia, who often have very few rights and are supposedly only living there temporarily - and do not have full rights of freedom of religion.

"While emigration out of the Middle East and North Africa is projected to lower the share of Christians in countries such as Egypt, Iraq and Syria, the immigration of Christians into the GCC countries is expected to more than offset these departures for the region overall.

"Thus, migration is expected to slow the projected decline in the Christian share of the population in the Middle East-North Africa region. If migration were not factored into the 2050 projections, the estimated Christian share of the region’s population would drop below 3%. With migration factored in, however, the estimated Christian share is just above 3% (compared with nearly 4% as of 2010)," states the Pew report.

The report also forecasts that Muslims will outnumber Christians around the world sometime in the second half of this century.

Beyond a protective enclave

It's good to see an article from a  mainstream media outlet focusing on the plight of Christians in the Middle East. I like what Russel Mead had to say but unfortunately I don't think it goes far enough. Firstly, he outlines 3 scenarios but doesn't express any support for any. I don't expect him to say " we should let the Christians wither away and die on their own device" but at the same time he didn't express great support to the idea of providing any military assistance to them. He did give examples of successful efforts by groups, like the Jews, Druze and Kurds, who as a result of being armed are able to defend themselves.  Again, this is all good, and honestly, I believe it has to go beyond "arming" and a "enclave" but a fully accepted state that will be a safe haven for all Christians in that region. The problem is Christian Arab identity. If all Christians were to unite - abandon their national identity and see themselves as a "people" - the Arab Christian People",  not unlike what Jews did in manufacturing a "Jewish people", Christians should manufacture a Christian identity and forge ahead towards creating a state of their own.

Obviously, that is easier said than done. Try telling a Coptic Egyptian Christian to leave Egypt to go fight for a state in Lebanon? Try to get the Lebanese Christians to accept Egyptian migration in the millions?  What will it take to get them to unite? Unfortunately, we saw with the Jews, it took a horrific tragedy with the Holocaust that forced many to strip away their nationalist identity and embrace their Jewish roots - want it or not - Zionism and Israel was the life boat for many.

It should be noted, while I believe Israel was born as a result of the Holocaust, I didn't believe Palestine was the right choice for these European Jews who suffered greatly by the hands of Germans - and Europeans in general over the years, to be more accurate. Therefore, the solution should have been  found in Europe for them - land should have been taken from Germany to create a state for all the Jews in Europe.

That would seem fair, you punish the criminals and not punish  innocent bystanders a thousand miles away from the scene of the crime, The Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust.

In any case, this view is no longer valid as we watch Arab Islamic fanatics slaughter people of different religions.What is a remarkable twist in my way of thinking, I believe today's events justify a Jewish state in the Middle East. I would argue even more so than events back in the 1930's. The truth is, the scourge that threatens Christians in the Middle East today would undoubtedly be threatening Jews of the Middle East as well.  Therefore, Israel, as much as I hate to say it, and this has been a painful metamorphoses of sorts for me - has proven it's claims to be legitimate.  It needs to exist to be a safe haven for Jews.  Jews of Arabia, in my view, have a legitimate claim to land in the Middle East - and therefore, since Israel today comprises more than 50% of Jews from parts of the Arab world - a safe haven for them has proven to be a wise course of preventive action. Israel today spared these people - Mizrahi Jews - an ungodly fate as we watch the Islamic fanatics ethnically cleanse and murder religious minorities in unbridled fashion all across the Middle East.

Wall Street Journal: The Plight of the Middle East Christians

By 

WALTER RUSSELL MEAD

May 15, 2015 10:27 a.m. ET

The Christian communities of Syria and Iraq have survived 2,000 years of tumult and war. In some of them, prayers are still said in Aramaic, the language that Jesus used in daily life. These communities now tremble on the brink of destruction.

The numbers are stark. Almost 1.5 million Christians lived in Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Between the U.S.-led invasion that toppled his regime in 2003 and the rise of Islamic State, three-fourths of the country’s Christians are believed to have fled Iraq or died in sectarian conflict. The carnage continues. Of the 300,000 Christians remaining in 2014, some 125,000 have been driven from their homes within the past year, according to a March report on “60 Minutes.”

Rest of Article:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-plight-of-the-middle-easts-christians-1431700075?mod=trending_now_5